英文标题：When 'cute debt' is not so cute
"先买后付" 计划将购物款项拆分成小额分期付款，这种方式因其表面上的便利性而在全球迅速流行。这种新的消费方式游走在实用的预算工具和危险的 "糖衣习惯" 之间，提供短期便利的同时，可能带来长期的财务后果。
https://radio.cgtn.com/podcast/news/1/When-cute-debt-is-not-so-cute/576427
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When you're buying stuff, instead of paying the full amount at checkout,
当你在购买东西时，而不是在结账时支付全额，00:14
buy now, pay later, lets you split the cost into smaller installments over months.
现在购买，稍后付款，让你可以将费用分成几个月的较小分期付款。00:19
It's become a widely popular worldwide,
according to a recent U.S. report, especially among young women.
根据最近的一份美国报告，特别是在年轻女性中。00:26
who are more likely to use it even though men still carry more overall debt.
更有可能使用它的群体，尽管男性仍然承担更多的总体债务。00:31
With this shift in how we borrow and spend, is it a smart budgeting tool?
随着我们对借贷和消费方式的转变，这是一个明智的预算工具吗？00:37
Coming to you live from Beijing, this is Rantable.
从北京为您现场直播，这里是Rantable。00:43
For today's program, I'm joined by Steve Hatherly, and you shouldn't in the studio.
对于今天的节目，我与Steve Hatherly一起参与，你不需要在演播室里。00:49
In China, e-commerce giants have been ahead of the curve on buy now, pay later,
在中国，电子商务巨头在“先买后付”方面走在了前列，00:57
rolling it out in innovative ways and weaving it into shopping festivals, platforms,
and the everyday habits of millennials and Gen Z. born in the 1980s and 1990s.
以及80后和90后（千禧一代和Z世代）的日常习惯。01:09
For many, splitting payments into smaller installments isn't just convenient,
对于许多人来说，将付款分成更小的分期付款不仅方便，01:14
it's become second nature.
Meanwhile, in the US, the same service has taken on a different spin, marketed as quote-unquote,
与此同时，在美国，同样的服务采取了不同的方式，被市场称为所谓的，01:22
cute debt to young women,
with influencers and brands dressing it up in pink and selling it as something lighthearted and fun.
影响者和品牌用粉色包装它，并把它卖成一种轻松愉快的东西。01:31
But whether it's everyday integration or playful packaging, the question remains.
但是，无论是日常整合还是趣味包装，问题仍然存在。01:35
Are these services helping young people manage money or quietly leading them into deeper debt?
这些服务是在帮助年轻人管理金钱，还是在悄无声息地引导他们陷入更深的债务？01:42
What is the state of the buy now pay later market around the world right now?
So some stats are showing that you know Americans are increasingly using this kind of buy now pay later services to finance purchases ranging from luxury goods to weekly groceries and this year this service is it predicted to hit nearly 117 billion US dollars in transaction volume.
因此，一些统计数据表明，美国人越来越多地使用这种先买后付的服务来资助从奢侈品到每周杂货的各种购买，今年这种服务预计将达到近1170亿美元的交易量。02:12
Thanks largely to young female buyers.
That's according to the American.
Media marketplace report so also adobe's forecast showed consumers were expected to spend a record 18.5 billion dollars through by now pay later financing in 2024 that's up more than 11% Than last year around three quarters of this spending happens on a mobile device.
媒体市场报告，以及Adobe的预测也显示，消费者预计到如今将通过分期付款融资在2024年花费创纪录的185亿美元，这比去年增长了超过11%，其中大约四分之三的支出发生在移动设备上。02:43
Yeah That's not surprising, is it?
It happens on a mobile device.
It's just so easy, isn't it?
You can just imagine the situation for a lot of these purchases.
Not all of them, of course, but it's late at night.
You're lounging around on your sofa or in bed, and you see a shirt that you want to buy,
你正懒散地躺在沙发上或床上，看到一件你想要买的衬衫，03:02
something related to fashion or some item related to electronics, whatever it is.
无论是与时尚相关的东西还是与电子产品相关的东西，无论是什么。03:07
And you see, oh, well, I can't afford it right now, but I can do this little micro loan thing.
而且你看，哦，嗯，我现在还负担不起，但我可以尝试这个小额贷款。03:13
Yeah, let's just go ahead and buy that.
It's just so easy to see why this is very, very successful.
And a 2024 study from the Boston Federal Reserve found that American women are 68% more likely than men to use these services,
而且波士顿联邦储备银行在2024年的一项研究发现，美国女性使用这些服务的可能性比男性高出68%，03:29
even though men have more total debt than women.
And you guys mentioned microloan, I think just the way these services are being rolled out.
而且你们提到了小额贷款，我认为正是这些服务推出方式。03:41
sometimes it catches you off guard.
People don't really necessarily understand that they're taking debt.
They sort of just feel like, oh, you know,
I'll get the stuff that I really want now and the pain comes later.
我现在得到我真正想要的东西，痛苦就留到以后吧。03:58
kind of forget about the pain.
This is the opposite of something that used to be really popular in North America.
I'm not sure if it was ever a thing here in China.
我不确定这里的中国是否曾经有过这样的事情。04:08
It's called a layaway system.
A layaway system is where you you commit to buying the item,
but you can't pay for it in full right now.
the company will keep the product and you keep making payments until you've paid it in full,
公司会保留产品，而你则需要继续支付，直到全部付清，04:27
and when you've paid it in full, then they will give you the product,
but they will hold it for you in the shop.
Well, it's it's guaranteeing a sale, right?
I think I did this when I was in high school for a pair of shoes that I really wanted like a hot ticket item that
我想我高中时也这样做过，为了我非常想要的鞋子，就像热门商品一样，04:44
if you don't buy them now,
they're going to be gone.
But I couldn't afford to pay for the shoes in full.
So the shop I remember the shoe store said you can do layaway,
which means we'll hold the shoes for you and you can complete the purchase in like three different payments and then you can take the shoes.
这意味着我们会帮你保留鞋子，你可以分三次付款完成购买，然后你可以拿走鞋子。04:59
So aside from that installment, do you need to pay extra for that?
所以除了那个分期付款之外，您还需要额外支付吗？05:03
Because this sounds like.
because you need to pay for that scarcity, right?
It is a kind of rare product that they need to save a spot for you.
这是一种稀有的产品，他们需要为你预留一个位置。05:13
And that's why it's kind of a weird system.
And I just looked it up before the show and that's why that system has largely died away.
我在演出之前刚刚查了一下，这就是为什么那个系统在很大程度上已经消失了。05:21
Apparently it still exists in niche markets like big ticket jewelry purchases, right?
显然，它仍然存在于一些利基市场，比如大宗珠宝购买，对吧？05:27
If you're gonna buy an engagement ring or something like that,
then you can pay in installments and they'll hold that diamond for you or that.
那么你可以分期付款，他们会为你保留那颗钻石或那个东西。05:34
But big retailers, they say, have largely moved away from that.
但是，大型零售商，他们表示，已经很大程度上远离了那种做法。05:38
And one of the reasons they've moved away from that,
I think, is because of this by now, pay later type system.
What about here in China?
What's the sort of lay of the land in this department?
this kind of service has been like applied to many e-commerce platforms right now an article published by the account of monthly magazine business China is showing that in November 2024 the e-commerce platform that is focusing on some of these budget budget holding products called Pingduoduo,
这种服务现在已经被应用到许多电子商务平台上，根据《中国商业杂志》的账号发布的一篇文章显示，在2024年11月，专注于这些预算型持有产品的电子商务平台拼多多的，06:18
they lowered the technical service fee for this Buy Now Pay Later service.
他们降低了这项先买后付服务的技术服务费。06:23
from 1% to 0.6% covering all sellers in September 2024.
从1%降至0.6%，涵盖2024年9月所有卖家。06:29
And also Taobao and T-Maw announced that during their double 11 shopping festival last year,
此外，淘宝和T-Maw也宣布，在去年的双11购物节期间，06:37
all participating sellers would be provided with free access to this service,
along with exclusive resource exposure to boost sales conversions.
which is another Ecommerce giant also launched this kind of service and it data showing that it has helped partner sellers increase their order of conversion rates by about 10%.
这家也是电商巨头之一，也推出了这项服务，数据显示它帮助合作伙伴卖家提高了大约10%的订单转化率。07:03
While some consumers are like uneasy about losing control of the payment process,
虽然一些消费者对于失去支付流程的控制权感到不安，07:08
others believe that the service can make payment more convenient.
但其他人认为这项服务可以使支付更加方便。07:12
So what they did there, that's from the seller's point of view, right?
所以他们那里做了什么，这是从卖家的角度看的，对吧？07:15
So these buy now pay later platforms made an agreement with the sellers,
所以这些“先买后付”平台与卖家达成了协议，07:20
they dropped a rate from 1% to 6% as a service fee in some cases.
在某些情况下，他们把费率从1%降到6%作为服务费。07:24
and in other cases made it free.
So for the sellers, That's a big incentive to promote that service.
因此，对于卖家来说，这是一个很大的激励去推广这项服务。07:35
Because with credit card fees, if you use a credit card at a store,
因为信用卡费用，如果你在商店使用信用卡，07:40
well, the store has to pay a certain fee to have that system in place.
那么，商店必须支付一定的费用来安装这个系统。07:45
So this is just another almost sounds like better alternative for the sellers.
所以这仅仅是对卖家来说的另一个几乎听起来更好的替代方案。07:50
And also, if you look at the Chinese market, you've got to give it up.
还有，如果你看看中国市场，你不得不放弃。07:56
for those e-commerce giants
because this buy now pay later service is often rolled out by that e-commerce giant.
因为这个先买后付服务通常是由那个电商巨头推出的。08:06
Alipay, they all have their own sort of financial vehicle for this.
So you've got your Huawei, you've got your Baityao and a whole bunch of these services.
所以你有华为，有百事泰，还有一堆这样的服务。08:21
I remember when they first appeared on the market about a decade ago,
我记得大约十年前这些服务首次出现在市场上，08:25
I was immediately worried
because these services are seamlessly woven into the online shopping experience where you've got a very young audience,
因为这些服务无缝融入了在线购物体验，而你的受众非常年轻，08:40
I'm talking about college students.
And I don't think you can be any younger than that to be able to use this service.
而且我认为你不可能比那个年龄更小就能使用这项服务。08:50
Everyday mundane people don't necessarily understand what they're getting into I was my worry is there a To get a credit card to compare the two you need to qualify to get a credit card with these services woven into the Shopping experience do you need to qualify for this or is it just an an option?
日常平凡的人不一定理解他们将要面对什么，我担心的是，要获得带有这些服务的购物体验的信用卡，你需要有资格获得这样的信用卡，你需要有资格吗，或者这只是个选项？09:22
Yeah it is an option and but you need to be I remember back then I applied for this and didn't success
是的，这是个选项，但你需要是有资格的。我记得那时候我申请了这个，但没有成功09:30
because I was not 18 years old so it should be be an adult to apply for this kind of service yeah and you need to you need to qualify but it's so easy to qualify easier than applying for a yeah anybody who's been using that app or that payment method for a few times can qualify and then these uh incremental installments of payments can just be like 50 yawn 100 yawn as small an amount like that so you know um the the the easiness of it or the convenience of it could also be you know the double-edged sword with the other side being Well,
因为我当时未满18岁，所以应该是有资格的成年人才能申请这类服务，是的，你需要有资格，但资格要求非常简单，比申请信用卡还要简单，任何使用那个应用或支付方式几次的人都可以有资格，然后这些支付的小额分期付款可以像50美元、100美元那样小，你知道的，这种便利性或方便性也可能是一把双刃剑，另一方面是，10:14
people are just taking on debt however small it might seem to be willy-nilly,
人们只是在随意承担债务，无论看起来可能有多小，10:20
and we might need to look at the potential risk of that, right?
For listeners who might not be all that familiar,
How exactly does Buy Now Pay Later work and how is it different from traditional loans or credit cards?
“现在买，分期付款”具体是如何运作的，它与传统的贷款或信用卡有何不同？10:35
Yeah, so Buy Now Pay Later, let's call it BNPL for short.
是的，那么“现在买，分期付款”，让我们简称它为BNPL。10:39
It is a short-term loan and it lets shoppers pay for products in very small installments,
这是一笔短期贷款，它允许购物者以非常小的分期付款购买产品，10:45
as you just said, spread over a set period of time.
正如你刚才说的，这些分期付款在一个固定的时间内进行。10:49
And these services are typically used for minor.
They can be for expensive purchases,
but they typically are used for minor cheaper, more affordable purchases.
但通常用于小额、更便宜、更负担得起的购买。11:01
And the difference between these and other types of loans is that BNPL loans,
这些贷款与其他类型贷款的区别在于，BNPL贷款，11:07
they're typically interest free and they rarely carry other service fees and it makes them suitable for people who are on a really tight budget.
它们通常是免息的，很少收取其他服务费，这使得它们适合预算非常紧张的人。11:15
Some providers might charge a small service or convenience fee,
一些提供者可能会收取少量的服务费或便利费，11:20
but these are typically much lower than what you would pay
但这些费用通常比你在其他类型贷款上支付的利息要低得多。11:23
if you compare it to interest charges on other types of loans.
如果你将它们与其他类型贷款的利息费用进行比较的话。11:27
and also consumers pay a small like portion upfront at the checkout like 25% of your whole price and then pay off the remaining amount in Instruments over the following weeks or months for example brands like Apple Huawei and Xiaomi they offer interest-free installment plans when you're buying a product from their websites,
并且消费者在结账时支付一小部分 upfront，比如整个价格的 25%，然后在接下来的几周或几个月内分期支付剩余金额，例如像 Apple、Huawei 和 Xiaomi 这样的品牌，当他们从他们的网站购买产品时，他们会提供无息分期付款计划，11:51
some even up to 24 months, which means you can pay it off within two years.
一些甚至长达 24 个月，这意味着您可以在两年内付清。11:57
It's like the layaway system, except you take the product with you.
Yeah, and if you miss a payment, you will be charged.
是的，如果你错过了付款，你将被收取费用。12:06
And also, two years, can these people really remember?
They will just be in the bill.
You will pay it like every month.
And that's the point I would like to say is that when you are choosing this kind of service,
而且这就是我想说的重点，当你在选择这类服务时，12:22
of course, for example, you're paying for a like 8,000,
当然，比如你支付了大约8,000、9,000元人民币的手机，12:25
9,000 yuan phone, but you separate into 24 months,
which means you're probably gonna like pay 400 yuan per month, which is like $56 per month.
这意味着你可能每个月要支付大约400元人民币，相当于每个月56美元。12:38
Suddenly become affordable.
and that's the case where people will buy bigger ticket items like a new television Right in the beginning to pay it off all at once that would be quite an expensive item But
这就是人们会购买像新电视这样的大件商品的情况。一开始就一次性付清，那将是一笔相当昂贵的开销。但是，12:50
if you can divide that over 21 24 months it makes it a lot more attractive for people who don't have that large sum of cash in the beginning.
如果你可以将其分摊到21个月或24个月，那么对于一开始没有那么多现金的人来说，这会变得更有吸引力。13:00
And you said, oh, our people are going to remember, well,
your bank account is linked to the payment or your credit card or whatever, right?
你的银行账户与付款或信用卡或 whatever 相关联，对吧？13:07
is deducted automatically rather than you having to actually physically visit a shop or something like that.
是自动扣除的，而不是你需要真正地亲自去商店或类似的地方。13:13
But I think remembering is still important in the sense of budgeting because you,
但我觉得在预算的意义上，记住仍然是重要的，因为您，13:20
maybe you have multiple platforms providing the service and you've signed yourself up to it and then can you remember like adding all these monthly payments up how much a big chunk of money is gonna eat into your your monthly income and I think for people like myself for not very good at math this is actually quite difficult to remember.
也许您有多个平台提供服务，您已经签约了，然后您能记住把这些每月的付款加起来，看看一大笔钱会吃掉您多少月收入吗？我觉得像我这样的人，不太擅长数学，这实际上很难记住。13:46
Yeah I mean let's not vilify this this kind of platform 100%
because yeah I think it's easy to get in over your head like you're explaining
因为嗯，我觉得像你那样解释很容易超出自己的理解范围13:54
if you go too far with too many apps you can kind of lose track track of what you've spent and what more importantly what you owe right but With the world economy,
如果你安装了过多的应用程序并过度使用，你可能会逐渐失去对所花费金额的追踪，更重要的是，你欠下的债务也难以掌握。然而，在当今世界经济的情况下，...14:06
the way it's been seemingly for a long time now,
a lot of people, a lot of families do live paycheck to paycheck.
许多人，许多家庭确实过着靠工资过日子的生活。14:14
So for things like groceries, if you can get a little help through a delayed payment plan,
所以对于像杂货这类的东西，如果你能通过延期付款计划得到一点帮助，14:21
an interest free payment plan, then these types of things can certainly be of assistance.
或者通过无息付款计划，那么这些类型的帮助当然是有用的。14:27
And they're really popular all over the world.
In Europe, back in 2005, in Stockholm, in Sweden, on Klarna.
在欧洲，2005年，在瑞典的斯德哥尔摩，在Klarna。14:34
They became a global leader in this BNPL sector.
他们成为了这个BNPL行业的全球领导者。14:39
That company serves 150 million customers.
They do it over 45 different countries.
They partner together with 450,000 different merchants.
And their approach includes a shopping app that they've established.
他们的方法包括他们自己建立的购物应用程序。14:55
They've got price drop notifications.
They have a rewards program.
So that's a successful example.
It's called a firm and this was actually founded by the PayPal
它被称为公司，实际上是由PayPal创立的15:07
if you know what PayPal is it was founded by the PayPal co-founder his name is Max Levchin and That company has become a leading platform BNPL platform in America and their service is integrated with major real retailers They work together with Amazon and Walmart and target targets like a similar company to Walmart I suppose and they offer these customers flexible payment options through their purchases.
如果你知道PayPal，它是PayPal的联合创始人创立的，他的名字是Max Levchin，那家公司已经成为美国领先的BNPL平台，他们的服务与主要实体零售商集成。他们与亚马逊和沃尔玛等公司合作，类似于沃尔玛这样的公司，我想，他们通过购买为这些客户提供灵活的支付选项。15:34
Well in the U.S. the service has even been branded as cute debt and targeted heavily toward young women.
嗯，在美国，这种服务甚至被冠以“可爱债务”的美名，并且主要针对年轻女性。15:46
this was reported by Annie Joy Williams at the Atlantic and she sort of called it the rise of cute debt.
这是《大西洋》杂志的Annie Joy Williams报道的，她将这种现象称为“可爱债务”的兴起。15:55
And what makes this group such a focus?
So they target like women oriented retailers, lots of these online shoppers load up their carts.
所以他们针对的是女性导向的零售商，很多这些在线购物者会填满他们的购物车。16:06
But once they see the total cost don't follow through and companies such as Afterpay pitch themselves to merchants by promising to Solve this issue of cart conversion shoppers are more likely to click pay now
但一旦他们看到总成本并不继续跟进，像Afterpay这样的公司就会通过承诺解决购物车转化问题来向商家推销自己，因为消费者更有可能点击立即付款16:21
if they have the option to pay less upfront An associate professor at Newcastle University called Jessa Loomis in England is an expert on these companies and she said the companies Make their real money not from the fees they charge consumers but from what they charge the retailer or merchants to be able to have this kind of buy now pay later service in their payments.
如果他们有选择 upfront 支付更少的选择，纽卡斯尔大学的助理教授、英国专家Jessa Loomis表示，这些公司实际上从消费者支付的佣金中赚取的真实利润并不多，而是从向零售商或商家收取的费用中获取，以便在他们的支付方式中提供这种即买即付的支付服务。16:48
So this is where these platforms are actually not targeting the young female customers.
因此，这些平台实际上并不是针对年轻女性消费者的。16:55
They're targeting the stores that the young female customers shop at.
Because what they're basically saying is, we can bring this demographic to your store.
因为他们基本上是在说，我们可以把这部分顾客群体带到你的店里。17:08
because if you're giving deals to the customers and those deals are embedded into the platform's online shopping experiences or apps,
因为如果你在给顾客提供优惠，并且这些优惠嵌入到平台的在线购物体验或应用中，17:19
then it makes it a lot more comfortable.
You mentioned the term, what was that term again?
so what that means is a lot of times shoppers will put a bunch of items in their online cart and then they'll get to the end of their experience and they'll go to click pay and they'll go,
这意味着很多时候，购物者在他们的在线购物车中放了很多商品，然后他们到了体验的尾声，他们会点击付款，然后他们会，17:35
I didn't realize it was going to cost that much and they won't follow through with the purchases
我没有意识到费用会那么高，他们也不会继续购买。17:41
because they have to pay for everything at the same time.
When these types of platforms by now pay later are embedded into the site say oh here's your cart it is quite expensive but you can do interest free for a few weeks or a few months That's that cart conversion,
当这些类型的平台，比如说，嵌入到网站中，显示你的购物车很贵，但你可以在几周或几个月内无息分期付款，这就是购物车转化，18:00
taking the full cart converted into sales.
And this is why it's really attractive for the businesses selling items.
这就是为什么对于销售商品的商家来说非常吸引人的原因。18:08
And that's why these platforms are targeting the businesses.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
sort of caught my eye and also caught the eye of the journalist was when she realized when she heard for example this slogan Little payments are just so much cuter.
它吸引了我，也吸引了记者的注意，是她意识到当她听到，比如说这个标语：“小额支付真是太可爱了。”18:30
Yeah, this is just obvious, isn't it right?
and then the journalist immediately realized that this ad was not made for a man and it's made for somebody like her a young woman in her 20s who's drowning in credit card debt and trying to keep up with the Joneses online and offline.
然后记者立刻意识到这个广告不是为男人做的，而是为像她这样的人做的——一个20多岁的年轻女性，深陷信用卡债务，试图在网上和现实生活中与别人攀比。18:51
And then the gender aspect of things, I think,
is interesting in the sense that men and women might be seen,
我觉得很有趣，因为男性和女性可能被看作，18:59
or maybe we do shop kind of differently.
Because if you look at the female demographic, often we're seen as the day-to-day shoppers,
因为如果你看女性群体，我们通常被视为日常购物者，19:09
because a lot of the household groceries, clothing,
A lot of these everyday stuff is bought by women,
and for men, maybe they're not always, but traditionally seen as the biggest,
而对于男性，也许他们并不总是，但传统上被认为是购买他们一生中最大的，19:27
more expensive items that they're gonna buy in their lifetime is a car and a house.
So it's interesting how that's all marketed differently,
所以，如何将它们全部以不同的方式进行市场营销，这很有趣，19:37
just to capture the right, to bring the right consumer to the retailer.
只是为了吸引正确的消费者，将他们带到零售商那里。19:42
They have murals in Los Angeles and New York that feature illustrations of cute strawberries and ice cream cones.
他们在洛杉矶和纽约有壁画，上面有可爱草莓和冰淇淋锥子的插画。19:55
And the tagline, yeah, I mean, these are the murals.
嗯，这个标语，我的意思是，这些都是壁画。19:58
And these are murals, these are paintings.
Using after-pay is like eating the whole carton and spending the calories out over six weeks.
使用分期付款就像一次性吃完整盒东西，然后在接下来的六周内消耗掉这些卡路里。20:12
So they're making a food reference and a diet reference.
And assuming that men don't count calories the same way as women do.
to me obviously is targeted towards calorie counters, right?
对我来说显然是针对卡路里计数器的，对吧？20:28
So that's the type of marketing that they're doing.
Look at the term, cute debt.
Does that not raise a red flag right there?
When have you ever seen the word cute in front of the word debt before?
你以前什么时候见过在“债务”这个词前面用“可爱”这个词的？20:44
That's why I said it's just so obvious.
what they're trying to do with their marketing.
So, I was thinking one thing is that these kind of payment companies,
they're collaborating with some shops.
With some celebrities too.
And also, their target audience or their target consumers are female.
而且，他们的目标受众或目标消费者是女性。21:07
And another thing is that I was thinking...
One question first, Trojan, do you use like credit card or like advanced consumption?
首先有一个问题，特洛伊，你使用信用卡还是像高级消费这样的支付方式？21:20
You know my answer and you should and I,
we belong to separate camps of ideas and financial habits here.
I do not use any advanced payment or consumption.
So not even a credit card.
And I use these kind of advanced consumptions a lot.
But from my experience, the females around me,
they don't use that advanced spending that very often or they may tend to have more ideas when it comes to finance and money management when they are purchasing something.
她们不太经常使用这种高级消费，或者当她们购买东西时，可能会倾向于有更多关于财务和金钱管理的想法。22:09
Maybe Yushun, you're surrounded by or you've met very rational female spenders.
也许郁勋，你周围都是或者你遇到的都是非常理性的女性消费者。22:16
Some of the reasons are they think it is kind of troublesome or you need to calculate more when you make these kind of purchases.
一些原因是因为他们认为这种购买方式有点麻烦，或者需要计算得更多。22:24
So like based on my stereotype on men, though of course not necessarily true, they of course,
所以基于我对男性的刻板印象，尽管当然不一定正确，他们当然，22:31
they may... like spend more time on like financing or managing their funds or something like that.
他们可能...比如花更多时间在融资或管理他们的资金或类似的事情上。22:38
So I was wondering if those like sales tactics are
because the mail market is already relatively saturate.
I don't want to sit here and make it sound like young female shoppers are incapable of making good financial decisions
我不想坐在这里，让年轻人和女性购物者看起来好像无法做出好的财务决策22:57
because that's not what we're saying at all.
We're only talking about the marketing here.
I think it's pretty obvious they are specifically and that's what the journalist wrote about in was at the Atlantic that that this is quite obviously targeted to to young female shoppers and the reason is
我认为这很明显，记者在《大西洋》杂志上写的也是这个，很明显这是针对年轻女性购物者的，原因在于23:15
because in those retail stores And here's another here's another example the Paris Hilton example Clarem Clarna They paired up with Paris Hilton they created what they called this house of y2k and it was this interactive pop-up that was devoted to millennial nostalgia,
因为在那些零售店中，还有另一个例子，就是帕丽斯·希尔顿的例子，克雷姆·克拉纳他们与帕丽斯·希尔顿合作，创造了所谓的“Y2K之家”，这是一个致力于千禧年怀旧情绪的互动快闪店，23:37
and they were selling a limited edition Paris Hilton Times or X-Clarma velour track suit.
他们出售限量版的帕丽斯·希尔顿时代或X-Clarma绒面运动服。23:44
So that's... obviously targeted at young women, right?
So I think that's the point that we're trying to make here is like,
to whom are they marketing towards?
We're not trying to say that the group that they're marketing towards is not capable of making good decisions.
我们并不是说他们所营销的目标群体没有能力做出好的决定。24:01
And also just stepping back a little,
we can see that young people around the world have embraced this way of spending so quickly in a matter of let's say a decade or so.
我们可以看到全球的年轻人如此迅速地接受这种消费方式，在短短十年左右的时间里。24:12
Why do you think this is happening?
Well, some could use it as a budgeting tool, right?
嗯，有些人可能会把它用作预算工具，对吧？24:18
The group that I spoke about before, if you see where your money is going exactly,
我之前提到的那个群体，如果你能确切地看到你的钱花在哪里，24:28
and you know that your payments are interest-free,
and you are the type who does stay organized and on top of things,
and you know exactly what's going where, when, and why,
并且你知道确切的钱流向了哪里，何时，为什么，24:39
and how, then this actually is quite a useful tool for a lot of people.
以及如何，那么这实际上对很多人来说是一个非常有用的工具。24:43
And I think the key word.
And that's probably as you shouldn't.
Let me just jump in quickly as we were talking about this right before the show.
让我赶紧插一句，因为我们就在节目开始前讨论了这个。24:50
And he's read the fine print.
He's got his cars and apps all very organized, and they belong in one interface on his phone.
他的汽车和应用程序都组织得非常好，而且它们都集成在他的手机的一个界面上。25:01
And as we were doing a quick survey before coming onto the show live,
one other co-worker was not is not as organized and he did not realize that when he's paying the bare minimum of the monthly repayment he's actually being charged although a very sort of fraction,
另一位同事并没有那么有组织，他没有意识到当他支付最低的月还款额时，他实际上还是在被收取费用，25:24
a small fraction of the total price, but he's still paying extra.
虽然只是总价格的一小部分，但他仍然在支付额外的费用。25:28
So you got to be super organized and like alert to stay on top of things.
所以你必须非常有条理，并且保持警觉，以便跟上事情的发展。25:35
And you were going to say something usual.
I wouldn't say you need to be super organized.
It's just remembering you need to pay off all of the money that you just used, right?
只是记得你需要还清你刚刚用掉的所有钱，对吧？25:45
And yes, interest free is the keyword in this scenario,
I think, when you are using these kind of services.
And the selling point is interest-free when you have that opportunity to pay that whole amount of money in a period of 24 months without paying extra I think that is the way or that is thing that people are interested about
并且卖点在于，当你有机会在24个月内一次性支付全部金额而无需额外支付利息时，我认为这就是人们感兴趣的方式或者事物。26:08
because they I mean when you are doing the calculation you have that amount of money in your hand maybe that interest in your hand can be totally much more than the way that you just spend it right away,
因为当他们进行计算时，他们手上有那笔钱，也许手上的那部分利息可以远远超过你直接花掉的方式，26:25
So that is actually also creating interest for you.
So I was thinking that is also one of the reasons that people are using this kind of advanced consumption
所以我想这也是人们使用这种高级消费方式的原因之一26:35
because when you are having these kind of interest free services and also when you are using let's say credit cards or these buy and out pay later services they will give you lots of like payment discounts in some way
因为当你享受这种免息服务，以及当你使用比如说信用卡或这些先买后付服务时，它们会以某种方式给你提供很多支付折扣26:51
because they are encouraging you to use this service and maybe accidentally you forgot that is the scheme right you accidentally forgot and then you pay the extra interest fees I'm kind of torn
因为它们在鼓励你使用这项服务，也许你无意中忘记了这是正确的方案，你无意中忘记了，然后你支付了额外的利息费用，我有点矛盾27:04
because as I said a couple of times it can be a useful tool for people that need it but the problem I have is with the marketing when you cute debt.
因为正如我之前说过几次，它可以是人们需要时的一个有用工具，但我遇到的问题是营销，当你陷入债务时。27:13
It seems like they're trying to fool people.
There's nothing cute about debt, and debt can spiral out of control very, very, very, very quickly.
债务根本不可爱，而且债务可以非常、非常、非常、非常快地失控。27:23
And if the target market is young people, young women,
without a lot of financial experience, and these tools are embedded into the shopping platforms,
没有太多财务经验，而这些工具又嵌入到购物平台中，27:34
it's very easy to accumulate that debt over time to a point where you can't handle it anymore.
随着时间的推移，很容易积累到无法再承受的程度。27:43
Debt is something that, you know,
I wish I had learned about this a lot better when I was 13, 14, 15, 16 years old.
我希望我在13、14、15、16岁的时候能更好地了解这一点。27:52
The more you know about this when you're young, the better you can try to avoid it.
你年轻时对此了解得越多，你就能更好地尝试避免它。27:56
Debt isn't something that you want to necessarily bring into your life, particularly if you're,
债务不是你想要带进你生活里的东西，尤其是当你，28:03
when you're using these services, I sound like such a dad right now.
当你使用这些服务时，我现在听起来就像个老爹。28:07
When you're buying something that you don't have the money for, don't buy the thing.
That's just generally good advice.
From a personal finance point of view, you can say that not all debt is bad.
从个人理财的角度来看，可以说并不是所有的债务都是坏的。28:25
Good debt helps you build value or generate future income.
好的债务可以帮助你建立价值或产生未来的收入。28:32
Well, the first example might... actually be a little controversial, student loans in the US.
好吧，第一个例子可能……实际上有点有争议，美国的助学贷款。28:38
Like in theory it should be...
In theory it should be good debt, right?
Because you're gonna get a, like work hard and get the degree.
But now you see a lot of American universities closing doors simply
但现在您看到许多美国大学只是简单地关闭了大门。28:49
because they can't get enough enrollment and there's this major debate happening in the US and other Western countries when tuition is so expensive,
因为他们无法招到足够的生源，而且在美国及其他西方国家正发生一场关于高昂学费的激烈辩论。28:58
whether it's worthwhile or not.
But anyway, traditionally...
It's been seen as good debt and also mortgages such as buying a home that can't appreciate in value or maybe business loans so you can find,
它被视为良好的债务，以及像购买无法增值的房屋这样的抵押贷款，或者可能是商业贷款，这样你就可以找到，29:09
so you can fund a profitable venture.
But bad debt is really obvious too.
Bad debt are used to buy things that don't increase in value and may create financial strain.
不良债务用来购买那些不会增值的东西，可能会造成财务压力。29:22
Credit card overspending on fast fashion gadgets or dining out.
信用卡在快时尚小玩意或外出就餐上过度消费。29:27
payday loans with high interest and BNPL used impulsively for items that you simply cannot afford can go into this category.
高利率的工资日贷款和冲动购买你根本负担不起的商品的BNPL也可能属于这一类别。29:39
I think it's just very important.
And you mentioned it, you said it really well, Steve.
I think this is part of financial literacy that everyone should, we're lucky if our family.
我认为这是每个人都应该具备的金融素养的一部分，如果我们的家庭能提供这样的教育，那就太幸运了。29:54
families can provide that for us,
but it's also just about knowing what you're getting into financially.
但这也关乎你了解自己在财务上将要进入什么情况。30:00
Knowing what you're getting into, because a credit card can be a good thing too, right?
既然你知道自己要做什么，因为信用卡也可能是个好东西，对吧？30:03
It can help you establish a good credit score over a period of time when used responsibly,
如果你负责任地使用，它可以帮助你在一段时间内建立良好的信用记录，30:08
but that's the key, right?
So finally, looking ahead, what can platforms, regulators,
所以，展望未来，平台、监管机构和消费者可以做些什么来确保30:16
and consumers do to make sure that Perhaps by now,
pay later, stays helpful without becoming harmful.
First of all, for the platforms, of course,
that very obvious terms that need to be shown and informed to consumers and activated and turn off easily is a key thing that consumers need to know.
那些非常明显的条款需要向消费者展示和告知，并且能够轻松激活和关闭，这是消费者需要了解的关键事项。30:42
And also, I think the cautious of consumers is also very important.
As you said, you need to be like super aware when you're spending all of these money, of course,
正如你说的，当你花掉这么多钱的时候，你当然需要超级警觉，30:55
that can easy or weaken the sense of you are having a debt when they're using all of these terms like Q-dead or huabei.
这些术语如Q-dead或huabei可能会使你更容易或减弱负债感。31:04
Actually huabei in English is just spend it.
实际上，huabei在英语中就是“花掉”的意思。31:08
I did not know that until right now.
So people are using these kind of terms,
but consumers need to be aware of all of the amount of money that you just spend on different platforms and accumulate them.
但消费者需要意识到你在不同平台上花费的所有金额并将它们累积起来。31:25
And also, I think a very good trick is that,
as Steve said, you can use all of these buying out pay later service,
正如Steve所说，你可以使用这些买断后付款的服务，31:32
but you need to have the ability or amount of money to pay pay off them right away.
但你需要有支付或金额立即偿还它们的能力。31:38
So I think that is one thing when you can use these services safely.
所以我认为这是你可以安全使用这些服务的一个方面。31:43
Well, by now pay later can help manage cash flow,
嗯，到目前为止，分期付款可以帮助管理现金流，31:48
but only if you stay aware, organized, and don't treat borrowing as free money.
但前提是你得保持警觉、有条理，并且不要把借款当作免费的钱。
跨境人老刘