“菲说不可”节目每周六上午10:00-11:00首播，每周三9:00-10:00重播，
关注公众平台“WAFM905”您还可以点播该节目。
他，出生成长于美国，八十年代移居澳大利亚；
他，有位亚裔太太。对美国人、澳洲人喝中国人有独到点评；
他，在访谈中辛辣点评现任州长。
他是西澳反对党领袖麦克纳罕！
专访视频呈现👇
话说采访当天滴一个小插曲。。。
采访组前一天晚上早早入睡为第二天采访充电。
但是。。。
第二天清晨七点，
俺们发现，麦克纳罕博士在官方平台
专门为西澳华语广播电台打了个广告👇
👆大概内容就是请西澳人民当天留意FM90.5
在上午十点半滴直播会采访麦克纳罕博士哦
。。。。。。。
原来我们计划是录播的
。。。。。。。
好吧！！！！
直播就直播！！！
采访组迅速调整方案
👆电台节目小陈在直播室等小赵过来直播
👆当到采访现场时这样
经过一番布置，是这样👇
上午十点半，录播直播同时开始
除了西澳华语广播电台现场小赵同步翻译直播
西澳华语广播电台的FACEBOOK专页同步开启现场直播
FACEBOOK专页直播间顿时挤满了哦。。。。✌️
东方邮报
2018年4月5日出版的第685期专版刊登采访文字版
［前言］
本期专访文字版中，主持人文菲（以下简称“W”）对话西澳反对党领袖麦克纳罕Dr. Mike Nahan（以下简称“M”）
W: Ladies and gentlemen, you are watching Just Talk Show on WA FM90.5. I am Wenfei. Today we are interviewing Mike Nahan, the Leader of the Opposition. Hi, Mike. 女士们，先生们，您正在收看收听的是FM90.5《菲说不可》节目，我是文菲。今天我们要采访的是西澳反对党领袖Mike Nahan博士。你好，Mike。
M: Hi, how are you！ 你好！
W: I hope you remember me because I introduced you several times in a couple of Perth's key events in 2017.我希望你还记得我，去年珀斯的各种重要活动中我都介绍过你。 That's the year that I get 16 Chinese New Year functions, of course, but I remember you.去年我（大概）参与了16场和中国新年（有关的）活动，不过我当然记得你。
W: I hope that so. I know you were born and grew up in America and you moved to Australia when you were 28 and 4 years after in WA and 13 years after you entered politics, so why?我知道你在美国出生长大，28岁那年移民澳大利亚的时候在西澳居住了4年，又在（移民澳洲）13年后进入政坛，能和我们讲一样缘由吗？
M: I first came here to work at university in Canberra, ANU, and then I did my PhD there in economics and I finished in 82, then I came here. I met my wife who is from Malaysia, who was doing her PhD in law at the same university. It's very difficult for many people to realize, get jobs at the same places, professionals so I said to my wife: "you know, you find the place where you want to go and get a job", and she came to Perth and I followed her. Honestly, I fell in love with the place. I then got onboard at Curtin University as an academic. And we have been here more or less ever since. We lived for work purposes in Melbourne for 13 years, nice city but Perth is better. So, in 2008 I put my hand up and I won the seat in Riverton for the Liberal Party. We went into the government. I won this seat by 64 above so it was very close thing, I've done much better since then but it's a seat that fits me well. It's a seat that has a large amount of migrants like myself, particularly from Asia or south Asia, east Asia. And it's a place that education has the best high school in the country, Rossmoyne Willetton. And I'd represented for the people in Riverton for now almost 9 years, going on 10. 我一开始是去堪培拉的澳大利亚国立大学求学，1982年在那里完成了我的经济学博士学位，然后我来了这里。我和我的妻子在校园相识，她来自马来西亚，当时（她）在攻读法律博士学位。要在同一个地方求学求职是很困难的，所以我就对我妻子说：“你放手去干，做你想做的工作”，于是她就来了珀斯，我也跟着来了。说实话，我很喜欢这里。接着我在科廷大学当了一名学者，从那时起，我们就一直居住在这里。
我们因为工作原因在墨尔本生活了13年，那座城市是不错，但珀斯更好。所以，2008年的时候我决定从政，在Riverton代表自由党获得一席之地。随后我又进入政府，当时的支持率超过64%，这个席位很适合我，这个选区有着大量的移民，包括我自己，很多人来自亚洲、南亚或是东亚。这里的教育质量也在国内领先，Rossmoyne和Willetton都是很好的学校。我已经代表Riverton将近9年了，期待我的第10年。
W: At least we have something in common. We love Perth. We all love Perth. I've been to Sydney but it's too fast. I love the speed of Perth.我们至少有一点相同，我们都热爱珀斯。我去过悉尼，但是那里的节奏太快，我喜欢珀斯的慢节奏。
M: It's clean. I like the ocean. It's not too crowded. It's a very nice place to raise kids.这里很干净，我喜欢大海，不拥挤，是个养儿育女的好地方。
W: I think you worked in media as economist and policy analyst that make you more interested in politics?我知道你在传媒界从事过经济学者和政策分析员的工作，是因为这个你才对政治感兴趣的吗？
M: Oh yeah, when I was an academic I focused on various types of technical issue, mainly in Asia. I do a lot of economic work in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, southeast Asia was main but I went to China quite often, and then I became involved in local economic commentary. I was a columnist for newspaper for 15 years in Western Australia, so either, brilliant, on the edge of politics, the transition from being an economic commentator to a politician.
是的，当我还是学者的时候，我主要聚焦于一系列技术问题，主要针对亚洲，我在马来西亚、印尼、泰国从事过很多经济研究工作，东南亚是主要的工作区域，但我也经常去中国，然后我成为了一名本地经济评论家。我为西澳的报纸撰写了15年专栏，（这些阅历）让我熟悉政治，慢慢从经济评论员逐渐向政客过渡。
W: So where have you been when you were in China?你去过中国哪些地方？
M: I've been in Beijing, Hainan, Guangdong, numerous places, mainly for conferences but I went back often when I was a think tank in Beijing on various types of issues, was my specialty, I do not speak Mandarin. My wife grew up in Malaysia speaking English. She speaks Hokkien, Hakka, Cantonese but someone gave me a book of Mandarin. Within 6 months she's fluent.
我去过北京、海南、广东，还有很多地方，主要是参加会议，那时我曾是北京某个智囊团成员。我不会说中文，我的妻子也从小在英语环境下长大，（但是她）同时会说闽南话、客家话和粤语，有人给了我一本学习中文的书，她看了6个月就会说流利的中文了。
W: She's smart.那她很聪明。
M: She's smart, yeah.是的。
W: I only know one Malaysian word, it was terima kasih.
我只知道一句马来语：terima kasih。
M: Terima kasih, thank you.
谢谢（terima kasih在马来语里意为“谢谢”）。
W: Yeah. I think if you go to China, maybe I will ask you later, but you must've been through many Chinese presidents now so what's your thinking of Chinese development now?你去过中国，也接触过一些中国的领导人，你对中国目前的发展作何看法？
M: It's phenomenal！I first went there in 90's and I remember I was going to Shanghai where the Mayor of Shanghai has a room where he has these models of the City of Shanghai and he turns the light on, here's where we are now and he turns another light on, here's where we are in five years. I went back a couple of times and sure enough, he turns on the light, here's where we are now and here's where we come from. Just the economic development in China has been one great miracle in the world from hundreds of millions of people been drown out in poverty into middle class background and it's growing and it keeps going, in the first place, factories and industrial development but now it's going through technological revolution, which is just phenomenal. Indeed, China is going to lead, I think, much of the technical revolution like Alibaba, retail sales, online, just great. It's very good for the world, the largest countries in terms of population not only gets involved the rest of the world but leads the way anyway. It's been great to see for us in Western Australia. It has been wonderful because of most of our wealth, what we sell, agriculture, international tourism or in fact, iron ore go to China.（中国的发展）令人震撼！我第一次去（中国）是在上世纪90年代，我记得我去了上海，当时的市长带我进了一间展示间，里面有整座城市的模型。他打开一盏灯，告诉我我们在（模型的）这里，又打开一盏灯，告诉我那是五年以后上海的样子。告诉我那是五年以后上海的样子。（五年后）我再次回去，当然，后来他又打开灯，我们在（模型）这里，而另一边是五年前的模样。中国的经济发展堪称世界奇迹，（这个国家）带领数亿人民从贫困到进入中产阶级，现在还在发展。从一开始的工业发展到现在的技术革新，令人惊叹。的确，中国可以引领未来，她有太多的技术创新了，像阿里巴巴、零售业、网上商务等等。（中国的发展）对全球有利，尤其是人口大国。对于西澳而言，中国的发展也是有益的，因为我们的财富来源（比如）我们的农业、旅游业和铁矿石都正销往中国。
W: Thank you for the comments. Now let's go back to Western Australia. Let's talk about our business. It has been 12 months since the government changed. How do you find it being the opposition leader?谢谢你的评价。现在我们（的话题）回到西澳，谈谈政治，（西澳）政府更替已经有一年时间，（从反对党的角度）你如何点评当前政府（目前现况）。
M: Well, we in our system, we have the government, and we have the opposition, and our task is to keep the government with the objective to meet their commitments, so it's a very important role. Adversario but it's absolutely a vital role and I stood up for taking the task. The first year was very difficult and we lost very badly. The government didn't do much because it took after a while for them to get yawning but now I think we are on stride. I think the government has real problems so there's a lot of fruitful issues out there for us to attack if you wish or keep the government stood by its commitments. The biggest one, of course, is they promise no tax on increasing taxes. They promise to basically increase funding for education and they're not. So we are on our stride now and we are hopeful in three year's time we bring a good one to the government and win in 2021.在我们的政治体制中，我们有执政的政府，我们也有在野的反对党。（作为反对党）我们的任务是保证政府能够达成它们的（执政）承诺，（我们扮演的）是一个非常重要的角色。（反对党）虽然是提反对意见的但是绝对（在政治体制中）是一个至关重要的角色，我毫不犹豫地担起这份责任。第一年对我们来说非常的困难，我们（州选举中）输的很惨。对于政府来说，他们建树寥寥，因为对他们来说（第一年显得）有些无聊，因为（反对党的反对）很不激烈，然而现在形式不同了，我觉得我们开始给他们施加真正的压力。我认为政府本身有许多问题，所以我认为我们有许多富有意义的议题角度供我们去攻击，迫使政府遵守他们之前许下的执政承诺。当然，目前我们遇到的最大的问题就是他们先前承诺不增加税负，而现在食言。他们承诺从根本上提高教育的投入，而他们实际上没有做到。所以我们现在正在大力施压政府，我希望我们在三年之后能够给大家带来一个好的政府（及政策），并赢得2021年的大选。
W: So here's a sharp one. What do you feel about the loss. Do you think at the time you are the leader, not calling, maybe...所以我这个问题可能有些尖锐。你是怎么看待失利的？你觉得到时你会赢，对吗？
M: We did what we did. We went with column. Putting in the context, at that time, we have changed the leader federally, Rudd, Gillard, Rudd, Abbott, Turnbull, people were sick of the parliament throwing up their elected leader. So that was one issue. Clearly, the column was coming in as a permit. And with due respect we probably should've done something about that. But we are loyal to our leaders and we did span four but in electoral we learned our lesson.我们会尽全力，跟随我们的领袖前进。这些时间，我们已经更换了很多国家领导，比如陆克文、吉拉德、陆克文、艾伯特、谭保，人们已经对政府不断更新换代而感到疲惫无力，这就是问题。很明显，这种更替是得到认可的，我觉得我们应该要做点什么，但我们忠于我们的领导人。在（历次的）选举中，我们也吸取了教训。
W: Since you served as a senior position in the last government, and now the opposition leader in this term. How would you describe the differences between the two governments?你在上一届政府中身居高位，现在又成为反对党领袖，你觉得两个政府有什么区别？
M: Well history makes the difference. When we came in 2008, we were committed to the employment, job growth, high wages, and mainly against drug demand for our resources. We had huge numbers of people coming into Perth, almost 1800 people a week coming in and we had investments, we had 55 new schools, we had built 11 new hospitals, we had growth, electricity, and more, we had repair, when you build a new house, add a new family member, a child, you have to buy for it, so we did, but then in about 4 or 5 years the second term source are major sources that 25% coming from iron royalties, they collapsed, went down by 65% so we were struggling. Fortunately, governments provide health, education, welfare, police you can't cut them so we ran that for the second, we built up a large amount of steps but I think we were generally a very good and responsible government building what was needed at the time and what Western Australia, its stadium, Yagan Square, railway system, hospitals, well use for decades.
以史为证。我们（自由党）2008年执政的时候，我们承诺致力就业率、增加工作数量、提高工资、打击毒品等等。我们有大量的移民来到珀斯，一周有将近1800人。我们（自由党执政期间对社会）投入了大量资金，（比如）开设了55家新学校，建立了11座新的医院，增长经济并提高了电力系统。当你买了一座新房，家里有了新的成员后，你得用到以上种种。
但是接下来的四、五年以后，我们的主要资源，占据25%的矿业税下降了65%，所以这是很令人烦恼的。幸运的是，当时的政府提供医疗、教育、福利、警察等等（各项预算）没有消减。
所以我们二次运营，制定了更详细的计划，我觉得我们总体是个很负责任的政府，为民生建设了很多，比如西澳的体育馆、Yagan Square、铁路系统、医院等等，都是可以享用数十年的建设。
W: I think since Turnbull’s back, the Federal government sees a good sign of unemployment rate drop, however, we in WA are still struggling to see some positive changes in terms of economic performances. In terms of the property sector, tourist sector and international student market, would you please give us your thoughts on improving WA’s economy through those sectors?
自从谭保（执政）以来，联邦政府的失业率有所下降，但在西澳，情况却不容乐观，我们还是没有实现较为可观的经济发展。在房产、旅游和留学生等产业，你对提高西澳经济有何看法？
M: We are experiencing the lowest population growth in 35 years in Western Australia. Western Australia always had a large amount of immigration. And one reason for that is that the government decided, first move in May, to restrict the immigration. The McGowan government cut the category from 178 to 18. And they also changed Perth from a regional center to a capital city for immigration purposes. And that really keeps the guts out of immigration. And also most importantly for our students, particularly from China because foreign students,I know this personally, I was a foreign student, my wife was, my sister-in-laws were. They come to choose a country to study for a number of reasons at universities, we have those, but they also might want to stay after or permanently so they chose a place, they give these option of same, do a PHD, you might want to do a post doctoral degree,and well they're for stay. Mr. McGowan took that away so we are losing international students whole off to South Australia. As to the housing sector as driven by population growth, we are in the midst of baby boom that will take about 25 years for
them to buy houses but we need people and we have built our beautiful city for a fast growing economy. But people aren't coming because Mr. McGowan doesn't want them. In another issue, what's really meant to economy strong is our mining sector, which is kinda unique.Maybe Alberta in Canada is similar to that. And it has had the biggest booming history with 715 million US dollars.
Our state is going through a slow period but we need to promote investment in mining, not undermine. What we're doing well and hope to continue is agriculture, again, which is good so the government is really committed to growth in areas we can provide mining, agriculture, people,we need people. We aren't a small state, you know, we have 2.5 million square kilometers of land but you know how many people per square kilometer on average? One, so we have a lot of land and we can do with it.我们（西澳）正经历35年来最低的人口增长，尽管我们一直是个移民大州。最大的原因是政府决策，去年五月，政府开始严格削减移民。麦高文政府把178个移民技术砍到18个，并把珀斯从一个区域中心变成一座首府城市。这无疑打击了很多移民（数量），还有很多学生，尤其是中国学生。我很懂这点，因为我本人曾是留学生，我的妻子和她的姐姐也都一样。我们来到这里，进入大学求学，但他们也想在毕业后继续生活在这里，甚至是永久居留，所以他们才要选择一个新家，可能是继续求学，获得博士后学位等等。麦高文（政府）夺走了他们的机会，所以我们也失去了很多留学生，他们都去了南澳。房地产同样受人口推动，虽然我们正在婴儿潮中，但至少得经过25年，那些婴儿才能有能力买房，但我们现在就需要人力，我们为了经济增长而建设了这座美丽的城市，但人们却不再来珀斯，因为麦高文政府不要他们。此外，我们独一无二的矿业也是决定经济的一大因素，加拿大的阿尔伯塔省和我们很像。我们曾创下7.15亿美金的增长纪录。
目前，我们（西澳）州经历着一段非常缓慢的发展时期，所以我们要宣传，吸引人们前来投资，而不是破坏。我们的农业做得很好，所以政府需要对核心的产业作出承诺，农业、矿业，还有人口，我们需要人口。我们是一个大州，知道吗？我们有250万平方公里的土地，但平均一平方公里上有几个人？一个！所以我们需要大量人口来从事更多的工作。
W: Ok, we can all be concentrated in rural areas.
是的，我们可以专注于乡村地区。
M: Yeah, yeah, we aren't short of land and we need people.As many people in Chinese community it's very hard, even though our employment is high, in some certain types of businesses, agriculture, and recreational turfs, it is still very hard o get people to work in particularly rural areas. So I think what the problem is we just need more people, skilled, motivated, not too many, but I would think Melbourne and Sydney are both getting over 140000 migrants a year while we are losing people.We lost 16000 people to eastern states last year.
是的，我们的土地很多，所以我们需要人口。但这个很困难，即便我们的就业率不低，但在有些行业，比如农业等等，我们依然很难在乡村地区获得足够的人力，所以我们的问题是我们需要更多的人，有技术的、有干劲的，不要太多，但人们都会先选择去墨尔本和悉尼，每年都分别招收14万移民，而我们正在流失，去年我们已经失去了1万6千人，他们都去了东部。
W: I think some people talk about the two high buildings in Scarborough Beach being canceled.我听说Scarborough Beach的高端大厦项目被取消了。
M: Well I'm not sure in particular. We supported the high rises in Scarborough, we invested 100 million dollars in facilities there. I'm not sure about the details, the government said they support the high rise, we need investment in our foreshore, especially Scarborough, and the investors are supportive doing the issues, and I hope we get it off.我不是很确定，但我们很支持这个项目，我们已经投入了一亿。具体细节我不是很清楚，政府说他们支持这个项目，我们需要在海边投资，尤其是Scarborough，投资者也很支持我们，希望我们能实现这个项目。
W: We know you have a multicultural background family.You said your wife is from Malaysia, and yourself an American, one of the thirteen kids. That's very Asian.Can you share with us your view on the multiculturalism in Australia?
你的家庭背景很多元，你的妻子来自马来西亚，你自己又是美国人，有12个兄弟姐妹，这点很像亚洲人。你能对澳洲的多元文化说说你的看法吗？
M: We did this very well. We have done this very well, not always,we had White Australia policy but that was gone away 40 years ago.And more recently we started with the Colombo Plan way back in the 50's and 60's where students from Asia, so we focus on a couple of things of our neighborhood, we focus on skilled migrants, which is very good, we focus on having students come and stay, and they make perfect migrants because they study here and like to stay here. And we have quite diversity but we went out and had program respecting each other's culture. You know what's also important is that it's commercial interests to know that we know,the strengths know that the commercial interest is getting to know and understand in like,that where our migrants are, and that's where most migrants come from, so I think we do well but we always have to work on it. People put barriers on each other and you gotta make sure that's not overwhelming, you have to be able to allow people to come and remember the culture including the language to the children because especially Chinese has wide values but you will have to also encourage migrants to be Australian, Chinese Australian, Australian Chinese, whatever, but Australian at the end.
我们做的很不错。尽管不是一直都很好，比如白澳政策，但那在40多年前就被废除了。 50、60年代，我们参与了科伦坡计划，来自亚洲的学生致力于我们的社区和技术移民。学生们来到这里学习和居住，他们是很完美的移民，因为他们在这里学习，并想留在这里。我们的多样性很棒，而且我们尊重各个不同的文化。从经济角度出发，移民也很重要，所以我们要不断地在这方面努力。目前我认为我们做得很好，但我们还可以更好。人都会在人交流的过程中出现障碍，但这种障碍不能太过压制性，要允许人们记住自己的文化，包括教孩子们语言，比如中文就有很丰富的价值，但我们也要鼓励大家做澳洲人，华裔澳洲人也好，澳洲的华人也好，说到底都是澳洲人。
W: I think now the number of Chinese immigration is the largest in Western Australia and your wife is from Malaysia, so how you feel letting them to get involved into the western, you think they're totally Australians or they're still struggling in this cultural difference?
华人移民的数量在西澳是最多的，你的妻子也来自马来西亚，你觉得他们现在融入到西方社会了了吗？还是说，他们还在文化差异中挣扎？
M: There're two ways of Chinese migrants. First, southeast Asians, like my wife who are basically English educated because Malaysia, her education through her PhD was in English even though her mother and father don't speak English. In my community I have a very large community of Singapore and Malaysia and educated.They might play mahjong and other things but they are integrated into the community. The more recent people from China are getting integrated and we see them at tennis clubs,not too many at bowling club but it just takes some times and I'm sure they,Chinese migrants will get involved but the kids at school, they do it very well. The schools in Willetton have over 50% children from outside Australia.
有两类华人移民。有一类是东南亚的华人，像我的妻子（一样）在英语环境中成长，她的博士教育也是英语，即便她的父母不怎么说英语。在我们社区，大量移民来自新加坡和马来西亚，受过良好教育。他们可能会打麻将等等，但他们也融入到了本地社会。近年来的中国移民在这点上做得更好，他们去网球俱乐部，但似乎没怎么去打保龄球，做到这点需要时间，我相信中国（新）移民会做到的，而（他们的下一代）孩子就已经做得很棒了，Willetton的学校里有超过一半的学生来自海外。
W: What do you think of three words to suit Chinese, American and Australian? Each one three.
你能不能分别用三个词来形容中国人、澳洲人和美国人？
M: Let's say Chinese. hardworking, very family-oriented, and really focus on children educational achievement. My children had no choice but they did well. They did well but they had no choice. Australian, comfortable life, independent and telling it like it is, honesty, sometimes hard. American, they are very optimistic, and they are business-oriented but they at the end can be very fair also. You put those three together, my children have the mix of the best of three of the world, not sure if they agree with me but I hope they do.
M：中国人工作努力，非常以家庭为重，并且很重视孩子的成绩。我的孩子们没有选择，但他们做得很好。澳大利亚人生活方式很安逸，独立，该是什么就是什么，也就是诚实，尽管有时候有些强硬。美国人很乐观，以商业为导向，但到最后会很公平公正。你把三者结合在一起，那我的孩子完美了，不知道他们会不会同意这个说法，希望他们会吧。
W: My kids are mix of Chinese and British. got Chinese intelligence and sometimes British stubborn. I want back to the question about China because personally, I think one of the biggest achievements is the development of the electronic business, and also we now can travel between large cities in more efficient ways.We have very high speed trains, for example, Shanghai and Beijing have developed a huge modernised highway and bullet train networks,
this connects cities and brings more opportunities to businesses, do you think in WA and other states in Australia, we can develop similar policies?
我的孩子是中英混血，他们有中国人的智慧，有时有英国人的古板。好的，回到中国的问题上，我觉得中国最大的成就之一是电子商务，同时我们在大城市之间的旅行方式也变得非常高效。我们有高铁，上海到北京之间发展出了非常现代化的高速铁路网络，并会带来了更多商机，你觉得西澳和其他州之间能有相同的事情发生吗?
M: Yeah, China is quite unique, it's a centralized government that will do major decisions and one party state so we can go out, make decisions and carry them out but it really has done that really effectively with development of infrastructure, with its fast trains, airports and allocation. It's done that but it also has a couple of things.First, it's people saving very heavily.The savings raised 30 to 40% so they don't have to borrow from overseas, so most of that, infrastructure is based on using domestic savings and it has a lot of people in life we have, as I said we don't have people, the people who want to get ahead. We have, as I said, 2.5 million square kilometers with only one person per square. We don't have people to do what China does, even on the eastern states that we examine a veryfast train between Melbourne and Sydney three years, it doesn't make sense. So we have to do it differently, we have done the airports very well, we've done some infrastructure very well. China is going through changes, one of the greatest things the government is doing now is drop in pollution. If you go to Beijing you see it has to do something and it is doing it. You can see demands pulling pollution around major cities by end. Some of these is shutting down 200 stereos in the provinces around Beijing, must be very difficult because people lose jobs but it's what has to be done so China has a structure that can get things done and it has made a transition from basic infrastructure manufacturing into high tech more better than in the other countries, especially large countries.
中国是独一无二的一党执政，中央政府作出所有决策，其基建（落实决策方面）做得非常高效出色，比如高铁、机场等等。但有几件事我们要知道。第一，人们的储蓄很多，所以国家不需要向海外借款进行建设，一些基建仅仅依靠国内储蓄就可以开展，此外，人口也是问题，想我刚说的，我们缺少人口，我们有250万平方公里的土地，但每平方公里仅仅一人居住，我们没有那么多人口像中国那样进行建设。墨尔本和悉尼之间已经有了火车，但其意义并不大。所以，我们要用其他的方式。我们改建了机场，还有很多其他建设。中国正在经历很多变革，其中最大的就是对环境的保护。如果你去北京，你会发现一些环境问题，而（中国）政府正在着手解决。各大城市都是如此。超过200个北京周边的噪音（污染）源已被关停，这一定是困难的，因为人们失去了工作，但这又是必须的。中国有这样的体系确保各种工作的顺利完成，并且实现从基建生产到高科技的过渡，这比很多大国都出色的多。
W: Especially you know what happened to China nowadays so every policy,
every decision they made can last for a long time because Chinese got enough time to finish it. So I think the public wish if one government wants to do things they want the government to do things that continue, that's what they really want.
尤其是在你知道了中国的发展后，各种政策和决策都可以持续很久，因为中国人有足够的时间去完成，公众希望政府的决定是长期的，这才是民声所在。
M: In China you have a same continuing government since Deng Xiaoping in 1979, so all that period of time and they have been committed to economic development, economic growth of people, and pulling people out of poverty,
which are remarkable. We have different systems, we have not too many people in poverty, let's be honest, we have a large welfare system that China does not have but we have a democratic culture that is different from China for different reasons, I'm not a criticism but we could never do what China does but we rely on free enterprise from business people to take the lead all switch fronts and the state does not need Western Australia to do iron ore industry which we exported nearly 900 million tons of ships, the private sector did that, in China, it's the state sector, we are different economies, we are men and women, differences often attract.
中国自从1979年改革开放以来，政府的决策都是统一的，所以他们能长期一直地致力于经济发展和消除贫困。而我们的政府体系不同，说实话我们也没有太多的穷人，我们的福利体系很好，这是中国缺少的，我们的民主文化也和中国有所不同，我不是在批评（中国），我们也做不到中国可以实现的事情，我们依靠我们的企业来引领发展，国家不需要西澳出口9亿吨的铁矿石，因为企业会做，而在中国都是国营企业。我们都是不同的经济体的两个国家，就像男人和女人，我们的差别会让我们互相吸引。
W: If there's a train between Perth and Adelaide, or more, it will be easier.如果珀斯和阿德莱德，甚至其他地方之间有这样的火车的话，生活会更加轻松。
M: It is a long long way. There's nobody in between, from Kalgoorlie to Adelaide, there's no one.这是一段很长的距离，两地之间也没人居住，从卡尔古里到阿德莱德，同样是这个情况。
W: From your point of view, everything will be solved if we bring more population and immigration.
你的观点就是只要有了人口增加和移民，问题都会迎刃而解，对吗？
M: Yeah, also skilled people. We need, nowadays, with economy we need skilled people. One would say we'd be overboard but now I tell you many
people are going to Melbourne or Sydney not come here and stay.
We need more people.
是的，技术人才是我们非常需要的。为了经济发展，我们需要技术人才，有人可能会怀疑（这样发展）我们会不会超负荷，但我告诉你，（现实是）很多人前往悉尼或墨尔本，偏偏不选择珀斯，我们真的需要人口和人才。
W: Fair enough, I agree because all the economy factors, people is the most important. You got people and you got shopping centers or everything, that makes sense. Next question. A few months ago, the government decided to cut down the funding for Willetton Senior high school,lots of local residents expressed their concerns, we know that there were quite a few Chinese residents started a petition to voice their concerns over the funding cuts.Do you know about this petition and would you give some advice to these Chinese residents?说的很对。因为经济的各个要素中，人是最重要的。你有了人，才会有购物中心和其他一切。下一个问题，几个月前，征服决定削减Willetton Senior High的资金，很多本地居民都对此表示担心，我们了解到有一些华人家长联名请愿，对此你有什么看法和建议？
M: Yeah I do. We have leading policies to rebuild the high school, it was a major achievement in the community. It's a tremendous high school with 2300 kids. We started about 1600, it's an excellent school, and the development was about 60 some million dollars. The government of the day, McGowan government decided to pull the money out of that, they didn't save the money, they spent it elsewhere but as a result, Willetton has 24 classrooms now. That's a real shame, it's important to understand that Willetton, those 2300 kids don't just come from around Willetton, they come from Canning Vale,
Jandakot and elsewhere. It's a gift of the program in STEM, science, technology, engineering and math, for every year, the school can't teach that because now they don't have enough kids. It's an important school for people in lower income areas whose children are one of engineers for instance,
and it was very short-sighted. And they also not only stopped the rebuild,
they capped the funding to per student basis, they withdrew 1200 dollars per
child and then they actually tried to cut back on the Gifted and Talented Program. Very short-sighted. We need to do everything possible to promote our public schools, academic excellence, study of science, technology, engineering and math, and provide a pathway for children who want to be an engineer or doctor. The Labour Government has cut back on that, it's astonishing so I encourage everybody to keep up the passion. We can't let them cut back on the Gifted and Talented Program. By the way, my electorate has 20% of the kids who go to Perth and many of them of course from the Chinese community. We gonna get them back on that, and we continue the drive to put the money back to Perth Student Funding and also completely building a Willetton High School. It's very important because as you know kids are our future.
These are really important education, not just Rossmoyne and Willetton, it's Applecross, Churchlands, Mount Lawley, Shenton College, those high schools are the foundation stone for our education and are very important. And this government has lost its partner.我听说了，我们有很多政策（计划）重建学校，这是我们在社区（建设）中取得的成就。这所学校很大，有2300名学生，而一开始只有1600，这所学校的表现也很出色，已经得到了6千万的资金。但是，麦高文政府决定把钱拿走，他们并没有节省资金，而是用在了别的地方，结果就是学校现在只有24间教室了，这真的很可惜。要知道那2300个孩子们不仅仅来自于Willetton本地，还有Canning Vale、Jandakot和其他地方。学校是STEM项目里的重要环节，包括科学、技术、工程和数学，然而现在学校不能进行这一项目了，因为孩子不够。学校对低收入地区的人群也是意义非凡，而他们的做法太目光短浅。他们不仅仅想停止重建，他们还削减了每个孩子的基金预算，从每个孩子身上得到1200澳元，他们还想削减Gifted and Talented项目，真是目光短浅！我们需要尽全力去宣传我们的公立学校，（宣传教育方面的）学学术成就以及STEM科目，并为孩子提供一条引领他们实现理想的道路。工党削减了一切，真是令人震惊，我鼓励大家不要放弃，我们不能让他们削减我们的“天才与才华”的项目。顺便一提，我的选民中20%的人都是学生家长，（而且）很多人都是华人。我们要改变这一点，把被削减的部分拿回来，我们要继续推动珀斯的学生基金，完全地打造我们的威廉顿高中。孩子是我们的未来，所以教育意义非凡，不止是罗斯莫恩和威廉顿，还有阿普尔克罗斯、车屈兰、蒙特劳山和西顿学院（等学校），中学是我们教育的基石，可以说，我们的政府已经失去了中学这一大合作伙伴。
W: You mentioned your time in public would be limited, your committed to rebuilding the party and do you think you have made your achievements now?
你说公众时间有限，承诺要重建政党，你觉得现在你已经获得了哪些成就？
M: Yeah, the biggest achievement was after that loss, I get my colleagues motivated. Let's face it, I have to get them motivated, focus and work as a team. It's all about teamwork. We have to get a motivated team, I think we are now. And we look forward to the year of keeping the government to account. There's a large amount of things this government is not doing well. As I say,
they had a plan to win government but the government is struggling. We are keeping it to account and we have had some successes, we have the Gifted and Talented Program. It's astonishing the Labour government cut back on the education,that's why we're here to make them hold to account.
最大的成就是我们的团队在上次失利后更加有干劲了，（为此我们）也更加专注于团队合作。我们现在已经是一支团结的团队，我们期望着入驻政府，现在的政府有很多事情做的不好，像我说的，他们有计划地赢得选了举，但不能好好做事。我们要好好地保持这一势头，我们也已经取得一些成功，我们有“天才与才华”的项目，但是工党政府却削减了教育，所以我们更要好好努力，乘胜追击。
W: You quoted “YOU WERE GOING TO TAKE IT TO MCGOWAN”, did you take it yet?你曾说过“要给麦高文一点颜色看看”，你做到了吗？
M: I'm not Tony Abbott, I'm not gonna shirtfront him.
我不是艾伯特，我可不会挑战他啊。
W: Are you confident for the next election?你对下次选举有信心吗？
M: Politics is very uncertain businesses like swimming through chaos
but I'm confident that McGowan government has some real weaknesses,
we will put into a united team, I'm confident in the values and policies.
We do have a federal election next year, which will be a cloud issue
but I'm confident after that we will get on and hold account and
I wanna be there to see if we can see in three year's time.
政治充满未知，就像在一片混乱中前行，但我能自信地说麦高文政府存在很多弱点，而我们的团队团结，充满价值观和很多良好的政策，明年我们会参与联邦选举，有太多不确定，但我觉得我们可以挺过来，我想留在这里见证三年后的成功。
W: Some of my colleagues mentioned a safety issue recently. I want to know what's your thoughts?
W：我的同事有和我提及最近的一起安全事件，你对此有何看法？
M: Generally, in this area we have very low crime, which is great but it's not immune the people from the outside. And the whole range of reasons we have terrible use of drugs, it's not just in certain low income areas, it spreads,
and druggies do terrible things and we do have problems, our unemployment is over 20%, which is not good, we also have family breakdown and if you don't specially with young boys, if you don't parents to guide them, give them values, give them purposes, they get up to no good, and in fact, you could argue that more wealthy community has more problems on that than poor communities because poor communities have no choice and family breakdown,
drug addiction and unemployment is a real problem and those I think are the core of our problem. It's not easy because the state could only do so much,
it actually comes down reinforcing family to logic stands
M：一般而言，我们（西澳）这里的犯罪率不高，但这不能保证从其他地方来的人不从事犯罪。我们的毒品问题很严重，不仅仅是在低收入地区，这个问题在不断蔓延，吸毒者会做出很多可怕的事情，我们的失业率也超过了20%，很不乐观。此外还有家庭破裂这一问题，尤其是对男孩而言，如果没有父母引导，教导他们价值和目标，那他们就会干坏事。事实上，很多富裕的社区存在着更多问题，但是低收入人群却没有选择。家庭破裂、毒瘾和失业是我们面临的问题的核心。这个问题并不容易解决，因为州政府目前只能做到这些，我们更需要做的是团结和凝聚这些家庭们。
W: Thank you for your time. Is there any questions you want to talk about to the Chinese community?谢谢你能抽出时间接受我们的专访，在节目的最后，你有什么想对华人社区说的吗？
M: Yeah, thanks for the work that you do, becoming new or being here for a long time have made a great contribution to Western Australia, keep in touch with the Liberal Party, our main objective is to make sure that you enjoy what Western Australia has to offer and actually can continue getting opportunity to make contribution.谢谢你们采访。无论是新老移民，华人都对西澳作出了很大的贡献，请与自由党保持联系，我们最主要的目标之一就是保证各位能够享受在西澳的生活，并继续为我们（共同的）家园（建设）努力贡献。
部分图文和视频源自网络
本节目言论仅为嘉宾观点，与本节目无关！
出品人：姜兆庆
监 制：周 丹
出镜主持人：文菲
直播室：陈宣、赵寅
摄影摄像：周丹、梦蝶、Joanne Wu
文字整理&翻译：季迪
剪辑：DSHOP
统筹协调：麦克纳罕办公室
特别鸣谢：Lily Chen议员
