如果食物的多样性可以更加丰富，
人类的未来，是不是会有更多可能？
当今的时代，很多人已丰衣足食，
你会想象得到，很多国家的人依旧吃不饱吗？
世界很大，未来很远，
皆食得JUST到底为世界创造了什么？
Josh Tetrick，美国食品科技创新企业JUST（皆食得）公司创始人。
从美国康奈尔大学、密歇根大学毕业后，曾远赴撒哈拉以南非洲地区工作多年，目睹了很多非洲儿童的饮食困难。这促使他决心用科技改变现有的食物体系，建立一个更加健康、美味、可持续，并且所有人都能负担得起的食物体系。
近日，Josh 接受了味觉大师创始人钟宁的采访，访谈实录如下。
钟宁：您是因为什么样的原因会去做这样一家公司？
Josh：I was really motivated to start this because I didn't eat well growing up. My family was relatively poor, and I had a lot of food that wasn't that good, wasn't good for me, and it wasn't good for the planet.
我很有动力去创办这家企业，因为我小时候吃的并不好，我的家庭条件相对比较贫穷，吃了很多不好的食物，对我的身体不好，对地球也不好。
And then spent some time living in Africa, and I saw lots of kids not eating well, and I thought if I could figure out a way to start a business, that would make it easier for people to eat well, it might be a pretty good company, and we could do a lot of good too.
我曾经在非洲生活过一段时间，我看到那里有很多孩子也吃的不好。我想如果能找到一个创业的方法，能够让人们更容易吃得好，这可能会是一个很棒的企业，我们可以做很多好的事情。
钟宁：在您的定义里，您认为什么样的食物是好的食物？
Josh：I think people want to do the right thing，for their body， and for the planet. To make it easy means that the food has to taste really good. At the end of the day, if it doesn't taste good, it doesn't work, so it's gonna taste really good. It's got to be nourishing to the body. It's gonna be sustainable for the planet, and people need to be able to afford it. And it's really those four things we think of that is eating well, and that's why we've build a company to try to make sure that happens.
我认为人们想要做正确的事情，为他们的身体，为我们的星球。让做正确的事情更容易意味着食物必须好吃，如果最终食物不好吃的话，那就毫无作用。所以食物必须好吃，食物必须对身体有营养，食物必须是可持续的，并且人们也要能负担得起。满足这四点我们就认为是吃得好，这就是我们为什么要成立一家公司来实现这些。
I think there're so many things on the health side, so many of the the chronic diseases that impact us, whether heart disease, or cancer, or stroke, type two diabetes. They come from the food that we put in our body, and we can eat differently, we can eat in a way that is generative, that is making our body healthier. And it was said a long time ago that food is medicine, and I think that's how we should eat.
从健康角度来说，很多困扰我们的慢性疾病，无论是心脏病、癌症、中风、二型糖尿病，很多都是来源于我们吃的食物。其实我们可以吃的不一样，我们可以吃得更有生命力，让我们的身体更健康。有一句老话说食药同源，我认为这才是正确的饮食方法。
钟宁：食品行业是既古老又现代的一个行业，人造食品是一个全新的事物，它对传统食品行业的冲击是什么？
Josh：Well, it turns out that some of our best partners are traditional food companies. We found a bean and then we removed the protein from the bean, and then we partner with big egg companies and big dairy companies and big food manufacturers who take that protein, they mix it with oil and water, and then they push it out into distribution.
事实证明我们一些最好的合作伙伴其实是传统的食品企业。我们发掘了绿豆并从绿豆中将蛋白质分离出来，然后我们与大型的蛋制品企业、乳制品企业等大型食品生产企业合作，由他们来把绿豆分离蛋白与水和油进行混合调配成最终产品，然后推向市场。
And I think the truth is to build a better food system it's not just new companies like us that are innovating, but it's also the industry. And if we can figure out better ways to plug into an industry, that deserving billions of people today that has a supply chain today that has connections with retailers and restaurants today, well then you can do what you wanna do faster.
我认为要建立一个更好的食品体系，不仅仅像我们这样的高新企业在创新，整个行业也在创新。如果我们能找到更好的方法来介入这个涉及数十亿人口行业，这个行业已经有成熟的供应链系统链接零售商、餐厅等等，我们就能够更快实现我们想做的事情。
And I think there's not a fight, I don't believe between innovation and tradition, I think there's a relationship between the two, and that relationship inspires me.
我认为传统与创新之间并没有冲突，我认为这两者之间有某种更积极的关系，这种关系激励着我。
钟宁：JUST作为一家食品科技公司，跟传统的食品公司相比最大的区别是什么？
Josh：I think the differences are the kinds of people that work for JUST, we have computational biologists, and plant biochemist, and advanced process engineers. So the type of people that work for us, you wouldn't find in a typical food company. That's one.
不同的是我们JUST的团队，我们的团队中有计算生物学家，有植物生化学家，有资深的工程师。所以与我们一起工作的人不同，在传统食品企业中不会找到这样的人，这是第一点不同。
The second is our approach. We looked hundreds of thousands of plants out there in the world, and we didn't just look at the ones that are currently being sold, we tried to see if we could find something that the food system isn't currently using, and make something that people have never seen before. So I think one is the talent that we have, and the two is the approach that we take.
第二点不同是我们的方法。我们研究了成千上万种植物，不仅包括那些已经被广泛使用的植物，我们还试图发现一些目前的食品体系中没有的植物，并且创造出一些人们前所未见的东西。所以我认为我们与传统食品企业的区别第一点是我们的人才，第二点是我们采用的方法。
钟宁：刚才听您的介绍了解到，JUST目前的市场营销的方式和销售渠道仍然是比较传统的方式，但JUST又是一家全新的食品科技公司，未来您们还会延续传统的市场营销方式和销售渠道吗？
Josh：The distribution mode that we have is to focus on making, we call it the upstream of making the protein, and then we sell the protein to big food companies. So that ends up being our distribution mode.
我们的模式是我们专注于制造，即蛋白质生产的上游，然后把蛋白质销售给大型食品公司。
But the real innovation for us is on the different approach, it's the ability to find all of these tools in the plant kingdom, and figure out a natural way to make it into never before seen products, like JUST egg.
对我们来说真正的创新在于我们采用的方法，我们在植物王国中找到合适的材料，然后用一种自然的方法把它们制成全新的产品，比如JUST植物蛋。
And then build a brand that connects with people around it, maybe one thing that is different that our brand, we do think transparency is really important in the food system.
然后建立一个链接消费者的品牌，我们的品牌有一点不一样，我们认为透明度在食品体系里非常重要。
And it's important for consumers to see where we source it from, how we turn it into a protein, all the steps after that. I think moms wanna know that, and that's something that we're really proud that we're very open about it.
对于消费者来说非常重要的一点是要了解我们的原料来源，了解我们是如何把它转化成蛋白质的，我想母亲们都想了解这些，我们在这些方面非常公开，这是我们非常自豪的一点。
钟宁：JUST的产品在美国上市之后，您认为对消费者的教育是比较容易实现的，还是需要一些时间的？
Josh：It's probably been, we try to keep it pretty simple, we try to be open with consumers about the process. And we work with celebrities, and we work with some of the best chefs across united states. We like when people can actually scramble themselves, we find some of the best way to educate is to ask a family to have their young boy or their young girl pour in the pans, so they can actually see it themselves.
我们试着保持简单，并对消费者保持开放。我们与很多名人合作来开展消费者教育，比如很多全美最好的厨师。让消费者自己动手是非常有效的办法，比如让一家人在一起，小孩子亲手把我们的植物蛋倒进锅里，这样他们就可以亲自体验到烹饪过程了。
So we do a lot of that in New York, Chicago, and LA, and across the U.S. And I think people both in the U.S and in China are looking at it as a safe, and healthy, and tasty protein. And we think we should keep going with that way of speaking about it.
我们在美国纽约、芝加哥、洛杉矶等等很多地方举办过很多这样的活动。我认为不管是在美国还是在中国，消费者都认为JUST植物蛋是一种安全、健康、美味的蛋白质。我们还会继续采用这样的方式向消费者介绍我们的产品。
钟宁：在美国的市场，JUST的产品在餐饮渠道和在To C渠道的销量比例各是多少？
Josh：It's about, in 2019, it will be about half and half. So we're with hundreds of restaurants and universities and hospitals, stadiums, Disney land. And then some of the biggest retailers in the world, so about half and half.
2019年将会是一半一半。在美国我们的合作伙伴有数百家餐厅、大学、医院、体育馆、迪士尼乐园等等，还有一些世界上最大的零售商，所以大约是一半一半。
钟宁：你们在中国的商业模式是什么样的？
Josh：The business model is the same as it is in the United States, and we focus on making the protein, and then we're currently in talks with a handful of potential local partners, here in china where we'll sell the protein to them, and will partner with them to distribute all across the country. Today, in conversations, so right now our team is the one doing the heavy lifting on the distribution.
商业模式跟我们在美国是一样的。我们专注于生产蛋白质，我们正在与中国当地的潜在合作伙伴沟通，我们准备把我们生产的蛋白质销售给他们，然后由他们进行全国分销。目前正在与这些合作伙伴谈判，所以现在是我们自己的团队在做这些事情。
We manufacture North America and we ship it here today. But we have a team of eleven on the ground that are running the business, and have been responsible for getting us online and into restaurants. We try to keep it as similar as we can all around the world, knowing that there are certain things that are different, but a lot is the same.
我们的产品在北美生产，然后运到中国。我们现在有一个11人的团队负责中国的运营，把我们的产品通过电商和餐饮渠道销售。我们尽可能在世界各地保持同样的模式，我们也知道很多情况是不同的，但大部分都一样。
钟宁：现在在中国一个鸡蛋的价格差不多是五毛多钱，但目前JUST植物蛋的价格是比较高的，未来怎么样解决价格的问题？
Josh：Get a local partner. We're lucky there are about five local partners that were in discussions with today. And we really believe that's also again, the way to build a better food system. Yes a company like ours, has a brand that consumers are attracted to that has an entirely different approach to things, and then you plug that into an infrastructure of mixing of distribution across, tier one, tier two, tier three cities in China, and you're able to create something really meaningful.
找到一个当地的合作伙伴。我们很幸运，今天有五家潜在的当地合作伙伴跟我们进行了沟通。我们坚信我们建立一个更好的食品体系的方法，建立一个对消费者有吸引力的品牌，然后与既有的供应链体系结合起来进行生产和销售，覆盖到中国的一线、二线和三线城市，这样我们就有能力做一些有意义的事情。
钟宁：像JUST这样的新型食品科技公司融资额是非常大的，你们在中国会寻找什么类型的合作伙伴？
Josh：Well, so the companies we end up working with just like the companies we work within Europe or Canada or even Korea. They could be egg companies, they could be dairy companies, they could be big food conglomerates, and they have mixers, they have the ability to bottle, they have the ability to distribute. So sometimes they already have the equipment, there's little investment. If they don't have this equipment, they need to invest in the equipment. But those are the big things that we're looking for.
我们想在中国寻找的合作伙伴跟在欧洲、加拿大甚至韩国一样，他们可以是蛋制品企业、乳制品企业或者大型食品集团，他们需要有一些必要的生产设备进行蛋白质的搅拌、调配、灌装，并且需要有一定的销售渠道。如果他们已经有生产设备的话不需要额外增加投资，如果没有的话当然前期需要一定的投入。我们想在中国寻找的合作伙伴就是这样的。
Yes, that's the core thing we're looking for. And yeah we're currently talking to a number of different partners, but we're focusing on the the intellectual property around finding it, and transforming into protein. We have a patent on that process, and then we take what we make, which is protein, and we sell it to the local partner. And we do this in Europe, in Canada and elsewhere, and then the local partner is really good at mixing and bottling and distribution under our brand.
是的，这就是我们目前正在寻求的核心伙伴，目前我们正在跟很多不同的合作伙伴进行谈判。围绕我们的核心知识产权，把绿豆转化成蛋白质的整套过程我们已经申请了专利，我们把我们生产的蛋白质销售给当地的合作伙伴，然后在我们的品牌框架下，由他们进行蛋白质的进一步调配、灌装和销售。我们在欧洲、加拿大等等其他地方也是这么做的。
钟宁：对于您来说什么样算是改变了世界？
Josh：I think, you know, the food that we put in our bodies, the food that I put in my body when I was growing up, ends up making it easier for me to get heart disease, makes it easier for me to catch cancer. You know a lot of ways these chronic diseases or food borne illnesses, and I don't think that's fair. So I think one way that we're changing things is to make it a little bit easier for people to eat in a way that promotes health instead of degrades it. That's one.
我成长过程中吃进身体的食物最终是我更容易生病，更容易得癌症。我们知道现在很多慢性疾病都跟食物有关系，这是不公平的。所以我认为改变世界的方式是使人们更加容易地实现健康的饮食方式。这是第一点。
Second thing is, I think we can eat in a way that respects, we have just one planet, and we don't need to use so much land and so much water. We can be a little bit kinder to animals, a little bit kinder to oceans and rivers. I think that's two.
第二点，我认为我们的饮食方式应该有更多尊重，我们只有一个地球，我们其实并不需要消耗那么多土地和水资源。我们可以对动物更仁慈一些，对海洋与河流更仁慈一些。我想这是第二点。
And three, I think all of that can be done in a way that recognizes that food is not the same thing as a smartphone, food is not the same thing as software. The food is emotional, it's nostalgic, and we need to remember that and how we go about doing it.
第三点，我认为所有这些都可以通过一种方式实现，就是我们要认识到食物与智能手机是不同的，与计算机软件是不同的。食物是感性的，怀旧的，我们需要牢记这一点。
The third way I think we're impacting things is to recognize that making the food system healthier and more sustainable through using technology. We still need to remember that we're selling food and that food is emotional, people identify with it. It's not the same thing as a smart phone, is not the same thing as a car. This is something that human beings have been doing for tens of thousands of years. And it's important that we remember that, and it doesn't feel so unfamiliar. It needs to have things that remind people of home, remind people of their grandma's cooking. All of that is important and also trying to make the world better.
我们要意识到通过技术可以使食品体系更加健康和可持续。我们仍然需要记住，食物是感性的，人们认同它。食物有别于智能手机和汽车。人类成千上万年来一直与食物打交道，食物不是让我们感到陌生的东西，它让我们想起家，想起奶奶做的饭。所有这些都非常重要，都是为了让世界变得更美好。
钟宁：您刚才讲到中国是JUST未来最大、最重要的市场，甚至要超过美国。您希望JUST公司的食物能够唤起中国人什么样的情感呢？
Josh：I think China has the ability to lead the transformation of the food system around the world, and I think that's emotion number one. I think consumers in China need to know that China can be the place to transform this food system. And I think it needs to be done with transparency.
我认为中国有能力领导世界食品体系的变革，这是第一种情感。我认为中国的消费者需要意识到，中国是可以促进世界食品体系变革的地方，并且需要以一种更透明的方式进行变革。
I want consumers in china, not just to enjoy the food, but to know the food, to know the farmers who are growing it, to know the process that enables it to become what it becomes.
我希望中国的消费者不仅仅是享受食物，也要更加了解食物，了解生产食物的农民，了解食物变成今天这个样子的过程。
And then the third thing is I want the emotions of this is both familiar and new, and I think there's a combination again of tradition and technology, that I think is really important to communicate. That's the important thing that we wanna bring to the Chinese consumer.
第三点我想要让这种对食物的感情既熟悉又新鲜，这是传统和技术的结合，传统和技术的交流非常重要。这些是我们想带给中国消费者的东西。
钟宁：您是要打破旧世界建立一个新世界吗？
Josh：Um, I'm trying to use parts of what is traditional, parts of what has been part of the human experience with food for so long. And use that energy to make the food system a lot better, for future generations. So there's a respect, and humility about the past. I think there's a lot about the past, it can make the future a lot better. And if you forget about the past, you're not gonna be able to make the future better. So it's remembering what's important about it, and then using that evidence make sure people are eating a little bit better in the future.
我正试图采用一些传统的东西，一些人类长久以来对食物的经验，利用这些力量使食物体系变得更好，造福子孙后代。我也我对过去抱有一种尊敬和谦逊。我认为过去有很多可以让未来变得更好的经验，如果你忘记过去，你就不可能让未来变得更好。所以要记住什么是重要的，然后利用这些来确保人们未来会吃的更好。
钟宁：您的合作伙伴或者朋友最喜欢您身上的特质是什么？
Josh：Probably that, I pushed them to be better, that's one. I try not to take myself too seriously, that you know life is, we have one very short life, and I think even though we should engage in things that are meaningful, we should also have a lot of fun. You know, we should spend time with people that we care about, we should eat food that tastes good, we should spend time outdoors. And I think it's some combination of me pushing them to get better, and also then recognizing when they're around me that life is very short, and that we need to recognize that, live it in that way.
我激励他们成为更好的自己，这是其中之一。我试着让自己不要太认真，生命是很短暂的，我们应该做些有意义的事情，我们也需要有很多乐趣。花时间和我们关心的人在一起，吃好吃的时候，花时间在户外活动。应该是我的很多综合特质激励他们变得更好，我们意识到生命是短暂的，我们需要意识到这一点，并以自己想要的方式生活。
钟宁：从社会学的角度，您认为人和食物的关系是什么？
Josh：Well, sociology is really important because I think the food that people eat is a system, the system is not just one thing, the system is the environment, the system is the consumer, the system is the farmer, the system is the restaurant owner, the system is the policy, the system is the global environment. And it's the ability to step back and look at the system on how things are connected to the system, that thing has helped me build a smarter company, and that was something that sociology is really important in helping to sharp my mind.
社会学非常重要，因为我认为人们吃的食物其实是一个系统，这个系统包括消费者、农民、餐厅老板，包括政策和全球环境等等。社会学培养了一种能力，就是退一步来看待整个系统，看系统中的事物是如何联系的，社会学帮助我建立了一个更聪明的企业，这是社会学对我来说重要的东西，它使我的思维更加敏捷。
截止目前，皆食得全球已销售相当于1000万颗蛋的植物蛋。
或许，我们无意改变未来，
未来，却会因我们而改变。
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